The Faith of our Fanwankers, Part 1

[andrew_jorgensen]

Over at ATPo, there's a discussion about a possible season 5 scenario wherein Connor retains the powers he has as the product of a mystical union between two vampires, but not his memories of his time in LA, and then returns to AI seeking his true identity. Vash the Stampeder and Masq have independently arrived at the same basic plot (I'm claiming that I thought of a similar plot, but because I never wrote up my thoughts on "Home" like an interesting LJer and instead blathered witlessly about my icon, I can't prove this and you can safely ignore my bandwagon-jumping). While I was typing up a different scenario, one that is unfortunately more final, Vash posted another idea (wherein Connor just replaced another young man, who is going to want to get back to his family and out this imposter). I don't wish to discuss this scenario, or, really, the body of the post or anything about the earlier thread. I want to concentrate on one tiny little parenthetical. Vash writes, "Also, if Connor still possesses his powers (which I believe he does) [ . . . ]"

Less than 48 hours since we got a glimpse of new Connor in which his actions were basically passing the biscuits, and already people had beliefs as to what his powers are? It's not as if we've seen him leap over tall buildings in a single bound; there is not only no evidence with which to assess Connor's current powers, there haven't been any hints! And yet people are starting to believe things about him? I find this hard to comprehend.

Vash seems like a reasonable person, so I doubt he holds this belief so dearly as to declare a crusade against the infidels, but I have seen on the board at least several vicious debates between posters who knew in their hearts with absolute conviction that after Spike had been vamped, he went back to the party shown in "Fool For Love" and killed the people who had made fun of him (these posters swore he did it with a railroad spike, those providing the story Giles repeats in "School Hard"), posters who firmly believed that it was all part of Spike's blustery self-created mythos, and posters who repeated again and again that no evidence existed either way.

Ok, two points don't provide a stable foundation for a structured argument, but I wonder about this sort of belief. I think what Vash is saying is that he would, for dramatic reasons, prefer that Connor retain his powers (insofar as it would mean Kartheiser would return to the show, I share this preference). It makes for an interesting story, it brings a charismatic character back, and it dulls the knife that "Home" stuck in our hearts. By extension, I guess, this means that the people who argued that Spike went back and slaughtered the partygoers would somehow prefer the gruesome deaths of a whole bunch of innocent people to their survival. (In their defense, it should be pointed out that the partygoers were upper-class British twits, so those who believe Spike killed them can be excused. Ok, I should add that they were fictional upper-class British twits, so it's not like bad boy Spike fans are all deeply disturbed bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs. On a related note, I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome deadsoul820 to my friends list!) Indeed this sort of strongly held preference supports a hell of a lot of LiveJournals, as it is (as Masq is discovering) the root of fanfickery. I am sure that there exist fanfics in which Spike does go back and cold-bloodedly exact revenge on the people who belittled his poetry. (I am also sure that there exist fanfics in which Spike engages each and every one of them in hot sex, but that's another discussion.)

How much does preference affect belief? Many people of the Book, at least on paper, seem to prefer a world with some sort of ultimate meaning, or where mercy is the ruling consideration, to one without meaning, without mercy; I can't blame them. I, on the other hand, call myself a skeptic, an agnostic, and an atheist. (These are overlapping but not identical categories: I am a skeptic because I do not like to accept notions until I believe that someone trustworthy has empirically investigated and verified them; I am an agnostic because I believe that the existence of God is not verifiable through empirical investigation; I am an atheist because, when you come down to it, I just don't believe in higher powers.) I suppose I do prefer a universe where humans have to accept all responsibility for their actions. I wonder about Gnostics and their spiritual relatives, though. Do they really prefer to live in a world that has been corrupted, to live among a poor, deluded mass of humanity? I suppose they prefer to be the few specially enlightened ones. I can understand that -- it is admittedly similar to why I call myself a skeptic; it gives me a vantage point from which to look down on the poor deluded mass of humanity. Still, I wonder if while I'm sneering at those faces I'm really just looking into a mirror.

I don't suppose a fanfic theory of religious studies will get anywhere, but what is Talmudic scholarship but fanwanking the Torah? And some Biblical fanfics are of Halo award-quality. There's been Jesus/Mary Magdalen het; for those who like their 'ships twisted and angsty, like Wes/Lilah and CLex, Jesus/Judas has to be the greatest slash ever told.

[My sincere apologies to Vash, Masq, dead soul, Spike fans, Christians, Muslims, atheists, Gnostics, anyone who has ever believed anything, anyone who enjoys good writing and serious thought, and my mother.]

Comments

[deadsoul820.livejournal.com]

so it's not like bad boy Spike fans are all deeply disturbed bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs. On a related note, I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome deadsoul820 to my friends list!)

Thanks for the compliment, but I can't take credit for it. Being a bloodthirsty homicidal maniac is just too energetic - I can't be bothered.

You know, when I hit the comment button, I had all sorts of thoughts about belief vs. preference and fanon vs. canon and individuals' beliefs about what characters may or may not have done when they were off camera, but I got up to get a drink of water so now I don't remember a damned thing I was going to say.

I think what it boils down to, as long as it doesn't outright contradict what's been aired, one person's beliefs about whatever so-and-so was up to in the in-betweens, is just as valid as anyone else's, just as canon. Which ties into the authorial intent vs. audience perception school of art appreciation/criticism/passive acceptance. If, however, next season Connor is shown to be 100% grade A unspecial human, and people persist in believing that he's still all uber, then you have the situation of the people who refuse to believe that Drusilla sired Spike, who are still insisting that Angelus did it. Granted, they may have more of a stump to stand on because of School Hard. Shit, where the hell was I going with this. I've completely lost the plot.

Okay, so I don't believe that Spike went back and killed the upper class fictional British twits after he was turned. I actually don't care that much. I have a preference that he was of the opinion that leaving them to continue to be as they were was worse punishment than anything he, or any other monster, could dish out. There's something comforting about seeing some of the other people as being on this planet simply to make you glad you're not them (so long as you carefully block out the logical conclusion that you're on the planet to make other people glad they're not you). Does this make me a Gnostic, a skeptic, or just mean and self-deluded?

Hell, it's LJ, so I don't have to make sense. Those unreasonable pedants over at ATPo actually expect you to be able to back up your arguments, so again, with the can't be bothered.

Hmmmm . . .

[dherblay.livejournal.com]

Well, I can speak from personal experience that you're not mean, nor any more self-deluded than the rest of us. I doubt you're a Gnostic, or at least as a paid-up member, and I've never seen you describe yourself as a skeptic, but then most people are somewhat skeptical without having to make a big self-aggrandizing deal out of it.

I think you're right that when it's not canon, and when it doesn't contradict canon, it's probably just as valid as anything else. (Within certain parameters: there is no canon as to what Buffy was doing on August 8, 1985; however, it seems more in keeping with canon if she were in nursery school that day rather than selling arms to the Iranians.) Pretty much I don't care whether or not someone believes something, I'm just surprised at the vehement conviction that goes along with the belief. Of course, it is ironic that I would make this point with far too much seeming vehemence.

*Oy*

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Well, I certainly don't believe that Connor has retained his uber-ness. I am entirely at the mercy of M.E. for whatever they decide is the reality of the matter, and let's face it, that short one-minute coda at the end of the episode "Home" didn't settle it one way or another.

And who knows if ME will decide to settle it in season 5 or ever?

What I do have, and will certainly own up to, is the hope that Connor retains his uber-ness, partly for metaphysical reasons (is Connor "really" Connor without his uberness? Is having "Connor's soul" sufficient in the Buffyverse to be the "same person"?), and partly because I want him to have some evidence that the life he is now leading is more than it seems.

But honestly, I have never in the history of either show been so emotionally invested in something as I am this. I guess because up until now things on the shows have pretty much gone in a way I found acceptable. Well, the whole season 5-7 Spike thing was perplexing to me, but since I wasn't emotionally invested in Spike, I didn't pay much attention. I just gradually lost a lot of my interest in "BtVS" in direct inverse proportion to the amount of screen time given over to Marsters.

But the way they callously not only wrote Connor off the show, but wrote him OUT OF the show ("who's Connor"?) gouged something out of me as well. It's a little embarassing to admit to. I don't get worked up over televisions shows or television characters like this. But now I have.

I will have to wait, like everyone else, to see what they do with this strange turn of the story. ME usually doesn't pull out the foundation of their story lines like this without trying to prop it up with something plausible.

So while I have my doubts that Kartheiser will return, I will be interested to see how Wesley's personality has changed now that he no longer remembers ever betraying Angel or losing his friends. Why did he hop in bed with Lilah, anyway? Couldn't get a date with any of the non-evil noir gals?

Re: *Oy*

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Reading the above, I made it sound like I was emotionally invested in Connor's uberness. That isn't quite what I meant. What I meant is I am emotionally invested in the fact that they wrote Connor out of the show. If he came back on the show a perfectly normal human being, I would be pleased, as long as he was Connor.

Re: *Oy*

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

And I believe that it WOULD be Connor. After all, genetically, he would still be son of Liam of Galway and the New World whore-later-to-be-known-as-Darla.

That's one possibility . . .

[dherblay.livejournal.com]

Ok, I think my chance (http://www.voy.com/14567/2/101388.html) of getting quoted in your episode analysis just went up in smoke!

Re: *Oy*

[dherblay.livejournal.com]

I understand perfectly, and do not want to seem to denigrate, the emotional investment. I tossed and turned all night after "Calvary." Of course, I'm feeling much better now; I got my wish -- I hope you get yours. (Now Angel does say that Lilah will go back to Hell after the tour, but I'm hoping that gets forgotten over the summer.)

Re: *Oy*

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Well, if I do write this fic, and I am still at the stage where I am only threatening to write this fic, you will see that it is my opinion that Lilah will be by quite often as the mouth-piece of the Senior Partners. I've got a juicy little bit for her in my fic that brings out the part of her personality I love so well--how mercilessly she can weedle and torment Angel.

I'm refusing to collaborate . . .

[dherblay.livejournal.com]

. . . but I am soooooo betaing this baby!

Yeah, well, this "baby" is mine

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Good thing about non-collaborative fic? I get to control all aspects of the story line, characterization, and interpretations of ME.

Or, to be more accurate, the only person I'm collaborating with is the non-linear, subconscious, spontaeously creative "flow" part of my brain. If you're not sure what that is, ask Rah. : )

And furthermore...

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Sorry about these multiple posts. My thoughts never come to me all at once.

There is a very good reason for Connor to retain his powers, from a story line point of view. How the hell else is he going to kill Sahjhan?

"The one sired by the vampire with a soul shall grow to manhood and kill Sahjhan".

Well, unless Spike is about to father his own little infant hell-spawn who will then grow to manhood and do the deed, Sahjhan still has a date with death at the hands of Angel's little hell-spawn.

No guarantee that Connor would be still endowed, but a reason to think he might be, nevertheless.

Re: And furthermore...

[dherblay.livejournal.com]

You know, I'd like to see Sahjhan back almost as much as I'd like to see Connor back. (And Lilah and Cordelia -- and Minear and no Spike!) He had style.

Part of me worries that essential bits of continuity like that will get lost in the shuffle. I'm sure this has happened before in the Buffyverse (Buffy's S7 confusion over whether a Slayer will be called the next time she dies comes to mind). Part of me has confidence in the Angel staff, though. Part of me wonders how much it will matter, if Season Five has its own integrity. Though I really hope they resolve some of the "I'm kind of fuzzy on the details of why Justine slashed Wesley's throat when all he was doing was running off with Angel's blankie" sorts of problems raised by the erasure of Connor, I do think that the position the characters are in now has a sort of resonance. I can imagine them saying, "I used to have all these values and ideals that I would never sell out in a million years. Then I don't know what happened. It was like I just woke up one morning and became all corporate."

No, they'd better explain everything. (Ugh. I was getting impatient waiting for them to explain the end of season three finale. Now they've got a backlog!)

Re: And furthermore...

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I was getting impatient waiting for them to explain the end of season three finale. Now they've got a backlog!

Part of me is starting to think they just don't care. I'm losing my faith in ME, d'Herb. This is NOT a good sign. When Joss is too tired and Greenwalt and Minear have moved on to greener pastures and DeKnight just likes the sound of his own voice....

That's when you start to feel the urge to rewrite the Masters. Or the ex-Masters.

What if...

[(Anonymous)]

Really nasty this:

What if, in everyone's memory, Wes killed Darla and Connor inside her because he believed a prophecy Sahjhan forged saying the kid would be a monster and bring about Apocalypse. Wouldn't take too much rewriting to deal with that one.

KdS

Thanks!

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you know this, but I have been fiddling with a fan fic in which I bring the Connor from the end of "Home" back into Angel's life and help resolve some left over issues that got glossed over removing Connor's memory of his old life and everyone's memory of Connor.

What's stumping me is having to write an alternative version of the season 3 and 4 history without Connor, and the Wesley betrayal issue is one of the toughest.

I was getting stuck on the idea that no one in the gang had ever knew Darla was pregnant at all--that the very idea of Angel having a kid had been removed from their memories. Therefore this history/alternate memory thing would have to go as close to what happened as possible, but without Darla showing up pregnant.

But you're right, all that happens at the end of Home is Fred saying "Connor who?" which doesn't preclude the gang knowing Darla was pregnant, it only precludes everything that happened after Connor was born and Angel gave him a name.

Will have to think on this a while.